Comedy and Everything Else

[Ghost Dad]

...know doubt

[schley]

I'm sorry if this has already been posted. I haven't read most of this thread, and a couple quick searches turned up nothing. Anyway, in the 1994 documentary "It's Just a Ride", Jay Lean-o (!) talks about teaching a comedy class to a teenage Bill Hicks. Leno talks (briefly!) about how it went in the first 40 seconds of this clip:

Oops! Embedding has been disabled, so watch it on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NS_5k-sQh0U

[Junk]

Just realized the main issue about all this, essential problem. to me, it's not that you can't teach people how to be funny. I mean, of course you can't, but you could learn about comedy, etc. and that wouldn't be "wrong". Nor is it "wrong" to teach positive thinking, though it's pretty disingenuous (is that what it is?) to then call your positive-thinking-seminar a "Boot-camp". Thing is--whereas Wayne Deyer is on PBS preaching positive thought in the service of drumming up funding for PBS, these guys are starting a for-profit business, and you should always, always, always be suspicious of for-profit schools of any kind. I mean, you can't really learn to be a great artist, but you can learn a lot of shit about art, but no one at a state school or even a private non-profit like CalArts is going to actually say "You're definitely going to be a success if you go here and think positively!" (recruitment people will infer that, but the faculty of any reputable school will do no such thing) but a for-profit place will sell it to you and tell you that you're going to get a tangible return on your investment, and that's a Lie. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/04/ed...tion.html?_r=1

[scamboogah]

Bingo, junk. The problem isn't the boot camp itself, but what it is promising (both implied and directly) as a return for the $3,000 (BTW, I love that Jimmy went back and exposed him as a liar for saying the prices would be coming down the next Monday).

Basically, the ad for boot camp says this, "We understand that making connections and getting your big break in entertainment can involve a lot of luck and being in the right place at the right time. Why not BUY that connection? Louis Anderson WILL put you up as his opener, and Kyle Cease WILL put you up in front of him at the Improv. All this without having to 'hang out hoping to be noticed', or befriend people you find intimidating".

I love that this went on for 3 hours, because it gave Kyle exactly enough time to hang himself. By the end, he was on catch-phrase fumes, seemingly buried in a pile of his own hackneyed bullshit.

[Mansion]

Three answers you will learn from Kyle Cease at the Kyle Cease Interviewee Bootcamp:

One, every time you face a criticism, decry a trend toward negativity in all comics everywhere ever. This will instantly make everyone else seem like a douche rather than a thinking person.

Two, every answer to the question “Is this a scam?” (posed several times) should be “Well, you can choose to see this as a scam, but what if it’s an opportunity?”, which is EXACTLY WHAT A SCAM ARTIST WOULD SAY! Actually, I think a real scam artist would be smart enough to say “This is not a scam.”

Three, make outrageous claims of basically buying your way to direct insider show business ties in all your advertisements and then insist you’re not guaranteeing them while simultaneously directly implying that they will happen for sure.

Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Now you’re ready to turn every discussion into a soapbox for your weird Ponzi Scheme! Seriously, you might as well search-and-replace the words “Comedy Bootcamp” with “Amway.” I got the same dirty feeling inside when I heard him trot out the same goddamn talking points every single time.

I was struck while listening to a memory of a bit in the Greg Behrendt interview on the subject of self-help books and how they only really help people who have the seed in them to realize that thing. If you have that seed, check out a book on positive thinking or whatever quasi-mystical ideology Cease is pushing for free at a library, then go to a couple open mics.

And if you want access to the top comedians in the industry talking the straight dope about standup theory, practice and technique, try, I don‘t know, dozens of completely free podcasts. I’ve learned so much from CaEE and it didn’t cost me a dime. (Though I donate, hah!)

[Malicoire]

I'm not a comedian, have no interest in ever being one, but I'm a huge fan of all things stand-up, and between this show, WTF, Nerdist and all the others I listen to, I'm into it even more, being able to see how some of these guys work.

So being qualified as a layman's opinion, I don't see the Kyle Cease & Louie Anderson thing as so horrible. I love Stanhope, and I understand why he has the opinion he does, but I don't agree with it.

I'd liken their camp as less of an acting class as most comparisons have been drawn, and more as a writer's camp. They're not teaching you how to write there, but they're telling you common mistakes, some formulaic ways of presenting ideas that work well, networking you with other authors and publishers who may get you work, and that sort of thing. Any less a "scam"? Nah. I can't attest to how well they work, but I can see some people getting something out of them.

Three grand is pricey, no doubt, but if people are willing to take the financial risk, I can see it being worth it for some people. The "why not do it for free" thing is lame though. Hey, Jimmy Pardo can make people laugh, why isn't Never Not Funny free? People have to make a living. If the price is too high, people won't sign up.

As for the false promises, I agree that there could be the interpretation that the figures in the trailer are an intentional "Earn up to one million dollars a year!" marketing scheme, but I don't think a single person heard that ad and thought "Holy shit, I'm gonna make a million bucks if I take that class."

I've never heard Kyle Cease's name before all of this, and none of his comedy, but I think this guy is just trying to make a networking retreat like so many other fields have. Good idea or not, effective or not, rip off or not, I don't think it's done maliciously, and while I think it's just as much about turning a buck as helping others, I don't think it's any more a scam than any business. I don't think he deserves all the heat he's getting. Wait, did he steal any jokes?

My two cents that no one asked for. I just listened to this pair of episodes at work today, and felt like chiming in.

[Rasmussen]

I know that Cease decided to derail the suggestion that it become the Positivity (With Comedy) Bootcamp by going on a rant about how comedians don't like positivity, but he really needs to take it into consideration.

I also enjoyed how he seems to hate the idea of comedians being negative but spends a couple of hours attacking these hypothetical comedians and making them seem like jerks.

[pauliophonic]

Episode 103 with Paul Provenza

[nathansmart]

I wish you guys would've just read the book entirely - I want to read it myself, but I think the commentary is what makes it most interesting and I don't have any other friends that would care enough to make a book club

[JimmyJimmy]

Nathan,

I like the idea of a book club, I really do. Thanks Nathan!

[KeithTalent]

This was great. I probably would have anyway but now I'm definitely getting the book.

Have you spoken to Provenza about the boot camp thing? It was funny when he mentioned it, I could almost feel you deciding not to derail into that discussion.

I'd love it if in a future episode you yelled about Ed Schultz. That fucking Ed Show, man. Painting Olbermann as the left-wing O'Reilly is bullshit...Ed Schultz on the other hand, he's not as openly out of his mind as Glenn Beck but his show is so maudlin and gross. It's embarrassing.

[Toro]

What ever happened to Stef's book club?

[JuanCarlos]

I ended up liking Cease a bit more after hearing him on the show, I think he's sincere. I respected him a bit more where he withstood all the tough questions and it did seem a bit silly (and funny) after the first hour, it became a bit surreal pushing the idea that

I also found hilarious the way Jimmy described Doug Stanhope as some kind of wild woodland animal.

Transcription:

JDoug Stanhope? that guy's a maniac, he fucking lives in Arizona by himself in a fucking commune, he's off the gird, he can't talk to, who can talk to that

He's on drugs and he's drinking, and he's buttfucking women, people are punching him in the face and blackening his eye.I can't- I don't know what's his deal is, nobody does! If my daughter talked to him, I'd have to kill them both. What can you do about Doug Stanhope, he's a maniac. You hope he says something funny once in a while that everyone can enjoy.

Kyle: You really think that?

JD: YES.

[nathansmart]

The Stanhope stuff was definitely awesome.

And does anyone else think it's funny that Kyle's favorite comic is anyone that is brought up at any given moment?

[zzwanderer]

So has someone IP banned Big Picture yet?

[shig]

First off, what's this about a book club? Like a comedy book club??! Secondly, Stanhope's house is far from being a commune, and to call him a maniac is a wild exaggerration. And I've never had to hope he says something funny.

[FitFortDanga]

I listened to Stanhope's latest album yesterday and I pretty much hated it. I dunno if Jimmy was just being facetious, but yes, I DID keep waiting for him to say something funny.

[MarkAgee]

Cease talks a lot like a Scientologist. Not just the faux-positivity, but the language in the video. (Specifically, the emphasis on neuro-linguistic programming.) I was hoping Jimmy would ask about it.

[Barrabus]

Cease is clearly a dick salesman self-help addict, but good grief Jimmy's interview technique during the show was painful. It was such a relief whenever Stef jumped in and asked a question or two.

Sadly, Cease is the 'winner' for appearing on the podcast. He was on there to promote a product, and it's not going to go over well with potential customers if you walk out, get upset or angry when someone is asking "Why exactly should people buy what you're selling?". And as Jimmy's points became more stretched and unreasonable, Cease ended up looking like The Nice Guy.

Anyway, as long as Comedy Bootcamp (which i think is an awful idea) continues to make money, it's here to stay. They only way it can be combatted is by reputation.

[shig]

I listened to Stanhope's latest album yesterday and I pretty much hated it. I dunno if Jimmy was just being facetious, but yes, I DID keep waiting for him to say something funny.

I know it's off-topic but I'm doubting any one minds... I just am wondering if you have liked his previous albums.