John Mayer & Kumail Nanjiani, anyone know the story?

[JuanCarlos]

I am not saying things shouldn't be joked about, but that the kind of jokes like Mayer made perpetuate racism, and shouldn't be excused just because they are jokes. Attempts at humor which invoke race take skill and insight to be funny and not racist. Paul Mooney has that. John Mayer doesn't.

What would you say of Sarah Silverman's jokes involving race?

That seems to imply that a POC's aversion to being mocked based on their race or nationality is less valid than a white person's discomfort with being called out when they say something racist.

Does it seem to imply that? Really? You're taking some leaps there.

I'm implying jokes should be made in an environment of freedom, because jokes are not about making every group feel good about themselves, they're about making people laugh. That is all.

The great thing about comedy, I feel, is that grievances like yours DO affect material and how strong it is. Jokes point to society, not the other way around. They are the byproduct of our worldview, we don't need to limit ourselves using another person's standards.

A good comedian should trust his instincts. and a bad comedian, well... he'll just bomb the amount of times necessary until he quits.

The first amendment gives me the right to lisp and bend my wrist to impersonate gays, and to call a women the c-word, but it doesn't mean those are the best choices.

Well that's up to each individual right? I do think the issues you bring up are important, but should never be a fore-drawn conclusion, they should stay in a liquid subjective form, open to discussion or question. Never as a dogmatic "these are the things you shouldn't say" lecture.

[aenemaTron]

Sarah Silverman makes jokes about racism, not about race.

[BFH]

JC...

I don't think your "hurt feelings" statement intended to argue that people of color's point-of-view doesn't matter (especially considering you're a POC yourself). However, similar arguments have been used as a silencing tactic by white people who think we're living in a "post-racial" society, and tell people of color it's time to "get over it." I'm in the camp that says the historically oppressive class don't get to declare that racism isn't a problem anymore, and that it's not cool to dismiss anti-racism as "political correctness."

I don't think our difference of opinion is on the subjects of artistic liberty or transgressive art. I think we'd agree on the importance of subjectivity and open discussion, and that comedy can excel when testing and breaking boundaries.

I just have a particular distaste for the kind of jokes Mayer is reported to have made, and the "ironic racism" trend in general. I don't think every comedian is as talented at tackling race/racism as Silverman, and end up perpetuating what they claim to be making fun of. (Though I might be on an irrelevant tangent here, as I don't think Mayer is using the "ironic racism" defense... thanks for indulging it, anyway!)

[JuanCarlos]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply BFH, Anglo-Americans (huh?) approach to race relations has always been interesting and bewildering to me.

On the other hand:

Sarah Silverman makes jokes about racism, not about race.

Did I say they were about racism?

What would you say of Sarah Silverman's jokes involving race?

Nope.

Keep On Pickin' that Nit.

[aenemaTron]

I know you didn't say that, that's why I said it.

[wetandwild]

(The following isn't necessarily directed at any of my fellow AST forum denizens, it just represents some of my frustration with these kinds of discussions.)

...

If you are white, part of how this usually works is you're able to dismiss these things as "not a big deal," then walk away. Meanwhile, people of color are still in the oppressed class, and have to deal with the reality of racism on nearly an everyday basis. (see: white privilege). Perhaps white people should stop acting like being accused of racism is somehow worse than being a racist. Perhaps white people should be thoughtful when confronted, and instead of dismissing the offended party, scrutinize how their comments or actions are problematic.

You know your post is directed at them because you described almost every white person in this thread perfectly.

Plus, it is so funny (satire funny, not Mayer funny) to see people who VISUALLY reval their whiteness:



claim higher authority on what is and isn't racism.

And JuanCarlos? Maybe you're that one 'person of color' that Mediaite blogger talked to.*

It was completely at the expense of Kumail and didn't exhibit any kind of viewpoint or mockery of the kinds of people who would do that, it was just John Mayer being a dumb dickhead. And even worse: it wasn't funny or even remotely clever.

Exactly. Thank you both for contributing to this discussion.

*In reference to her conclusion that Mayer wasn't racist based hilariously on coming to a "consensus" with "a few people who were there, including a person of color".

[aenemaTron]

I like to think it's possible to have this discussion without that kind of personal stuff. It's fun and profitable to assume things about people but it's not nice.

[JuanCarlos]

Agreed!

and to the other guy:

stop implying I'm a Tio Tomás!

[Cupid Stunt]

It'd be like me accusing one of my Mexican friends of "acting white" or being a coconut because he bought a Sting album or something.

I went to the Police reunion concert and it was easily the most diverse crowd I've ever seen, and I've been to the DMV before.

[sharilyn]

Can we get this thread featured on Stuff White People Like? Because I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this, and since my race is relevant to everything I think, it must totally be a honkey thing.

[soce]

Thank you for using my profile avatar as part of your argument... btw that's not my real photo :-) Did y'all really think I was this guy??



Also you're correct.. because I am white (even that's not my real photo), everything I have to say about race relations is automatically wrong!!! (even though I specifically pointed out how I am a minority as well [ie Jewish and gay].. but those ones apparently get canceled out by my being white)

[RoyalDutchOfDukes]

I see where he was coming from, if there's one thing all white people love, it's Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart.

[soce]

Now that is certainly true. He is the best.

[RoyalDutchOfDukes]

Trust me, you go into any white person's house, they'll have a picture of Neidhart up on the wall, between Jesus and Barry Manilow.

[BFH]

John Mayer is in trouble for Playboy interview. (MTV.com article)

"I don't think I open myself to it," Mayer said of dating black women. "My d--- is sort of like a white supremacist. I've got a Benetton heart and a f-----' David Duke c---. I'm going to start dating separately from my d---."

"Someone asked me the other day, 'What does it feel like now to have a 'hood pass?' " he told Playboy. "And by the way, it's sort of a contradiction in terms, because if you really had a 'hood pass, you could call it a n---a pass. Why are you pulling a punch and calling it a 'hood pass if you really have a 'hood pass?'"

"I remember seeing Perez Hilton flitting about this club and acting as though he had just invented homosexuality," he said. "All of a sudden I thought, I can out-gay this guy right now. I grabbed him and gave him the dirtiest, tongue-iest kiss I have ever put on anybody — almost as if I hated f--s."

[aenemaTron]

That's drug induced, right there.

[TacoSmith]

Here's a fun game: Read those quotes to the tune of "Daughters".

[dorothy mantooth]

MAYER: Here’s what I really want to do at 32: fuck a girl and then, as she’s sleeping in bed, make breakfast for her. So she’s like, “What? You gave me five vaginal orgasms last night, and you’re making me a spinach omelet? You are the shit!” So she says, “I love this guy.” I say, “I love this girl loving me.” And then we have a problem. Because that entails instant relationship. I’m already playing house. And when I lose interest she’s going to say, “Why would you do that if you didn’t want to stick with me?”

PLAYBOY: Why do you do it?

MAYER: Because I want to show her I’m not like every other guy. Because I hate other men. When I’m fucking you, I’m trying to fuck every man who’s ever fucked you, but in his ass, so you’ll say “No one’s ever done that to me in bed.”

PLAYBOY: Do you do something different in bed than other guys?

MAYER: It’s all about geometry. I’m sort of a scientist; it’s about being obtuse with an angle. It’s sort of this weird up-and-over thing. You gotta think “up and over.”

PLAYBOY: Maybe that’s easier at your height. You talked about listening to Miles Davis and Bill Evans in high school, but that’s not the kind of music you make.

WOW. This journalist had to be over-the-moon, stoked out of his MIND while getting this interview. I probably would have had an aneurysm before I even had a chance to turn it in. Thank you, John Mayer, for giving EVERY PERSON ON THE ENTIRE PLANET fair reason to hate your guts. What a World Class Asshat.

(He was definitely on drugs.)

[bridgetosolace]

(He was definitely on drugs.)

Oh, and doing an interview for PLAYBOY. I'm sure he didn't need to lower his inhibitions much to take the piss out of it.

I maintain that until I see him actually do something racist, he's just an idiot who's trying to be funny rather than Hitler with a guitar.

[Me!]

UH OH JOHNATHAN MAYER IS IN TROUBLE!!!