My close friend's brother committed suicide last night. That's the second suicide in this circle of friends in 3 months.
The value of life itself aside, it's just such a hurtful thing to do to the people around you. He was only 23 or something.
(This is me in the angry phase, which usually lasts the longest... right or wrong. I can't help it.)
many tine tanies
I'm sorry, Erika. That's so awful.
Sending love and good thoughts your way, crly.
And while I'm posting, thanks to everyone who shared their story in this thread. It's a huge deal to talk about this, and even if you'll never know it, you have helped others immeasurably.
Really sorry to hear that, my condolences.
Dr. Phil is doing a suicide show today, they just showed some footage about Andrew. No matter how you feel about Dr. P, it's a good show topic I think.
I tried this and it did not work out well.Originally Posted by Americas Team
heather : ANDREA RUNGE IS LIKE A HORNY MOTHER THERESA
I've had pretty bad depression since I was 14. (The Year Punk Broke, but I'm not looking for scapegoats) My sister, 4 years older, had by this time been institutionalized off-and-on for 3 years following several suicide attempts.
This was the pre-Prozac era - she was misdiagnosed as epileptic, bipolar, god-knows-what-else, and put on a ton of different medications, whose side effects only made the then-undiagnosed depression worse. The treatment of her condition was just one extra indignity heaped upon my poor parents, who for years just spent more and more energy and money towards trying to help her.
Turns out she survived just long enough for a proper antidepressant to be invented and given to her. She's now been a nurse for 15 years, married, 2 kids, happier than ever. (I've no idea what/if she takes now - we haven't talked about her, or my, mental health for years.) As my mom says, "It's as though every cell of her body has been replaced." Of course it took more than the pill for her to make that transformation; but it DID take the pill, at least initially.
The experience with my sister has made my "approach" to my depression a little complicated. You'd think I'd just see how she's turned her life around and say, "Oh, she and I share all this DNA. I also think about harming myself all the time and have zero self-esteem, I should probably go on an antidepressant, too."
But stupidly, and this is the reason I'm posting, I've avoided properly treating my own depression because of that experience. I mistrusted mental health specialists immensely for a long time because of what I saw happening to my sister when she was sick. I was also terrified, after her great recovery, to even hint to my parents I had the kind of problem she did. They knew, of course, but I wanted to fight it without doctors, just for my parents peace of mind, if not my own. They have been able to turn the page on my sister's former problems - I needed for them never to worry about me the way they did about her. So I've "tried" to fight it on my own, with a lot of "help" from pot and alcohol.
I did go on Wellbutrin for a few months in 2000, and I was extremely productive and laughed a lot. It gave me a sense of confidence I'd never had, not in a crazy cocaine kind of way, but an actual grounded sense of self-worth. In fact, Wellbutrin gave me just enough confidence to stop taking Wellbutrin.
And... my depression came back, stronger than ever, and is still here.
Please understand, this isn't just about avoiding suicide. This is about every important part of your life - relationships, career, etc... ALL of this stuff is affected. I missed my best friend's wedding last month. Just couldn't do it! I thought about seeing exes and feeling weird about telling everyone about my careeer and personal difficulties, so I just bailed. The depression made that decision - my friends would've been glad to see me, but I just felt in my gut that my mere presence would have somehow tainted the ceremony.
Bailing out of things for this reason is something people with depression do over and over again in their lives - the decision-making process is clouded. You just can't get it together and get things done, even the stuff that would bring you the most joy. ESPECIALLY that stuff. You're embarrassed by your life, so you hole up and watch it pass you by.
So, I'm going back on the pills. MONDAY. Appointment scheduled.
Maybe a little Lexapro/Abilify combo, I dunno, we'll see what the new doc has in mind. Cognitive therapy will also be in order - during my Wellbutrin period I read "Learned Optimism" and got a lot out of it. I think I'll read it again.
I wouldn't say this thread, or the terrible tragedy that spawned it, made me decide to try address my problem the proper way; my life just happened to be coming apart around the same time. The thread has certainly helped, though; especially this quote from the first post, for which I can't thank Rob Delaney enough:
"...I tried very hard to step out of myself and look at the situation with a modicum of objectivity and "imagine" that I was someone who deserved help. "
If that quote resounds with you at all, you just might be a redneck with treatable clinical depression.
Last edited by Trinsky; March 14, 2010 at 4:24 PM.
Hi, I don’t know why I’m posting this, but whatever, it can’t hurt. I used to post here and chat a little but I stopped, for reasons that will become apparent.
I was diagnosed with depression when I was 11 and went on Prozac. I was extremely suicidal for no good reason (although, obviously there is never a good reason), anti-social, had low self-esteem, and just generally hated my life and everything about it.
A year and a half later, I was one of the top students in my middle school, made a bunch of great friends, and was totally excited about the future. It was a complete 180 flip.
I went off the Prozac and got through high school, looking back I probably succumbed to depression a bit but it wasn’t as bad as it was previously. However, I lost my work ethic, stopped making new friends, etc. Probably the only thing I got out of those years was discovering Mr. Show and “alternative comedy” and good music.
In college I started drinking, smoking pot, etc. initially as a way to socialize but eventually just in private for my own satisfaction. I was probably self-medicating, and I kind of knew it, but it was sort of working, so I didn’t really care.
My junior year I did cocaine for the first (and last) time, and was smoking weed that was (unbeknownst to me at the time) laced with crack. I started going really crazy, getting paranoid thoughts, thinking there were hidden messages to me in on TV, music I listened to, even on AST. I went on medical leave from school for the year, even though I didn’t really realize there was anything wrong with me, and my symptoms got even worse when I was home. I eventually went into a psychiatric hospital for two weeks, and then later I was an outpatient for about a month. I gradually got better. Now I see a psychiatrist about once a month, who diagnosed me with Bipolar disorder. I’m currently only on Lithium, but for about a year after I was also on Risperdol/Invega, and Zoloft for about a month for some other symptoms that ended up clearing up on their own.
I’ve been back in school since last summer and have been doing pretty well, and overall my outlook for my future is pretty bright, but my social life, which was never that great to begin with, is still in shambles… my friends since childhood were probably pretty freaked out by me when I was manic and it seems they want less and less to do with me. To be completely honest, I’ve recently started drinking alone again, and plan on starting to smoke weed again pretty soon too. So far it doesn’t seem to be having a negative effect, but it’s a slippery slope.
The best advice I can give anyone with a mental disorder is to make sure you’re correctly diagnosed, on the right meds, take them, don’t do drugs that will make your condition worse, and try to remain hopeful about the future. Sometimes things can seem really bleak, but sometimes things are darkest before dawn. I think that’s the moral of that Robert Rodriguez movie.
One thing I would say is that if you have a hard time staying disciplined with meds you should got to therapy at least once a week. That way when you start getting the itch to get off them you have someone monitoring you.
CS have you thought about going to AA or something like that. Even though you don't drink a lot, from what you say, it still seems like it has a brutal affect on your life. Plus you would be able to socialize with people who will not be put off by your situation. It is just a thought.
"Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory."
Wow. Great thread. Honesty is such a great thing.
I've never taken medication for depression, but have seen a therapist for talk-therapy. Man oh man has that helped smooth out a lot of life's rough edges. I can't recommend it enough.
My condolences, crlygrl.
Rob, thanks for starting this thread and sharing your story.
I also have been dealing with depression and alcoholism for many years. Some of you may know that I quit drinking a few years back. After a couple years without a drink, I fell back into depression. Then, about a month shy of 3 years of sobriety, I picked up the bottle. Needless to say my depression worsened; for lack of a better idea, I checked myself into a Salvation Army rehab in November (I don't recommend it.)
I'm now five months sober, in therapy, and taking Wellbutrin. I still don't feel close to normal, but have made some progress.
Finding a therapist that I can be brutally honest with has helped me immensely. A therapist is also keenly aware of shifts in your mood, and can help keep you in check about taking your meds. If you live in Los Angeles, check out The Women's Clinic and Family Counseling Center. They charge on a sliding scale. I've found the help I've gotten there so beneficial, that after leaving LA I've continued to take the train there once a week for therapy.
Also if you are in LA, UCLA has ongoing depression studies. I went through one of their studies, which lasted 9 months and included free medication. At the end of the study, they write you up a letter detailing dosages and diagnosing your depression. This helped me start a written record that has come in handy when going to a new clinic.
One thing that has had a noticeable impact has been getting some exercise. If someone had told me a couple years ago that exercise would help my depression, I would have told them where they could shove it. When brushing your teeth is an insurmountable chore, just leaving your bed is a victory. I started with walking, then jogging, and now any day that I don't go to the gym has the potential of being a bad day. As pathetic as it sounds, some of the only times I've felt 'good' lately have been on an elliptical machine. If anxiety is also part of your problem, I highly recommend some headphones and the elliptical. That's been my go to activity to quiet my mind when I start to spin out.
Siggers, hang in there! And crazyshat, I'll second America's Team's mention of AA. The 12 Steps have helped me in dealing with regret. It's not for everybody, but there are some amazingly supportive people in AA.
Well, I'm recently uninsured (the gift of adulthood!) and suffer from depression. Honestly, comedy is my main therapy right now, as I can't quite afford regular treatment. Finding The Maria Bamford Show was illuminating to say the least. She expressed so much of what I feel and am going through and made it hilarious. I'm drawn to self-deprecation, absurdity, misanthropy, and dark humor in the comics I love, because it reminds me that there are people out there whose minds work similarly to mine. I know that this is no substitute for real treatment, but laughing helps.
[YOUTUBE]yFHmNrxkuFU[/YOUTUBE]
I was, for a long time, the type who thought herself intelligent enough to reason away depression, but that's the nature of the problem. Circular thinking with a broken organ only serves to dig a deeper hole, I've found - a sentiment echoed in one of my favorite WTF episodes so far, with Rob Delaney.
I don't know that there's a real POINT in my posting this except to commiserate with like-minded folk who may understand what I'm going through.
And about the exercise thing in the post above - it's true! Exercising - or even just leaving the house when you don't feel you have the motivation - can really change your mood and outlook, if only briefly. It's easier said than done, though. I often don't feel like MOVING, let alone vigorously, but if I find even a dull spark, I try to use it.
It can be really difficult to manage depression WITH insurance and resources, and I'm doing my best to stay afloat without.
Last edited by beccaBeccaBECCA; March 19, 2010 at 5:15 PM.
I've had my bouts with general sadness and depression. Fortunately now less so than before. I will say for me changing diet and exercise for the better was very helpful.
But like many I've thought and thought about getting professional help for years, which I think is kind of the way, and just this week I went to my first talk therapy session. It was really really really good, couldn't believe. A quality of depression is that these are generally the thoughts you have when you're feeling isolated and alone. So to talk openly about them with someone else who you can have NO FEAR will judge you in any way is minorly mind-blowing
Honestly there's NO reason not to expend basically nothing to get therapy and/or medication. In the long run it can only help. It can't hurt.
I think you have to realize it's a silly thing to have pride about, that "I can do it without help, I can fix it myself" feeling. Like said, the problem is with your mind and outlook on things. In the WTF episode with Rob I think it was Marc that said something along the lines of "It's like trying to fix a broken machine with another broken tool."
Yeah, I also came to the conclusion that reasoning myself out of a depression would only make it worse, or at least not make it any better. My experiences indicate that reasoning can get warped by emotion and discrimination, because depression likes keeping you depressed, just like anger likes keeping you angry and happiness likes keeping you happy. I find that having responsibilities towards something generally keeps me out of a serious depression. Like if I have a show, I feel obligated to get out of the house for a few hours
prior and experience living before getting onstage. (Lately, I don't feel the need to treat open mics like shows, and so, I haven't gone out to any mics.)
I feel that learning e-prime has helped, and attempting to write in it and talk to myself in it. Basically, the structure of e-prime omits any form of the verb "to be" from the english language, giving it less of a concrete feeling. In depression, turning "Life is shit" into "Life feels like shit" breaks up the fatalistic objectivity of the phrase and turns it into a more personal experience that you can look at and hopefully break out of.
These articles explain it pretty well.
http://www.asiteaboutnothing.net/pdf_tobeornottobe.pdf
http://www.cauri.org/downloads/speakeprime.pdf
This post took about twenty minutes to write, including a couple edits using this:
http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eprime.pl
How did you get into e-prime, captain? I ask because back when I was very, very close to losing the entirety of my mind, a writer by the name of Robert Anton Wilson helped pull me back to reality. I say this because Wilson wrote extensively on e-prime as well as many other wonderful things that can help a lost mind find a foothold. Look into him if you haven't already (I suspect you have, though... but I have to take any chance to bring up Robert Anton Wilson)
Actually, E-prime got introduced to me in High School (yay Portland
Public Schools), and I hadn't really thought about it much until
recently. Then, on a learning binge I somehow came upon Robert Anton
Wilson (I think through Peter Ralston via Amazon), which re-ignited my
interest in improving the way I think (Sounds like Scientology. I
imagine I would love scientology if it got explained to me the right way).
I started out by reading "Quantum Psychology" before moving into
Prometheus Rising, which I have only recently begun to read.
Prometheus Rising kicks ass. I don't feel comfortable with prescribing
books, but Prometheus Rising, The Book of the SubGenius, and I'm okay
You're okay have all helped or continue to help me understand life as
it happens, and also to not cling to stuff so much.
Does anyone else have social anxiety? If I'm in big, noisy crowds or if people are drinking around me or if I even hear stories about people doing drugs or having drunken hook ups the hairs on my arm stand a little and I get anxious/stressed. I'm aware that a simple resolution to this anxiety would be to just join the big, noisy crowd, get drunk, get high and do the one night stand and acclimate but that thought causes me even more anxiety. Wondering about this because it seems like comedy (and most everything) is heavily slanted towards pro-drugs/pro-alcohol and I'm sure there are some people who prefer a quiet, sober, one-on-one, intimate conversation/relationship over the obligatory group gathering at the local drink station. Does anyone else feel this struggle between intimacy and group think/acclimation and get anxiety wondering why no one else seems to?
Funny that you mention that, because listening to her actually always makes me feel sort of good about myself as well. I like that she is rather open about her anxieties and I realized that I share in that whole unwanted thoughts syndrome. I never really thought much about it until I heard her describe it. So its nice to know there is someone else out there dealing with such a strange thing.
I don't think this is such a crazy concept. Despite what MTV and E! would have you believe, there are a lot of people out there that are uncomfortable around those kinds of situations. You probably just don't see many of them because they're busy hanging out alone in a diner somewhere.
As hard as I try not to be, I tend to be like that myself. For me it just always feels like I never really got into that zone of, "hey I'm an adult now, and I should do adult things." Somehow I always feel like a kid getting into things I shouldn't be or something. Which is strange because my upbringing was pretty relaxed and I don't have any real moral issue with most things, its just this subconscious feeling of not belonging in that world or something.
I think the biggest issue is that there is just such a strong emphasis on that being the only way to socialize that those that don't really enjoy it feel awkward because they feel like they are outcasts. And I guess they sort of are, but its really not all that strange to feel that way. Of course I am saying this from the vantage point of being one of those outcasts, so I guess I don't have the most unbiased opinion.
It's been an odd week, sort of coming out to my friends about the recent severity of my depression and about my decision to fight it with both cognitive therapy and medication. I wish I could say it surprised any of them.
However, a couple said point-blank, "Oh... You really shouldn't go on antidepressants." I know they mean well, but where before I'd half-agree with them, now I just want to tell them to fuck themselves.
As mentioned in my earlier post, I was the epitome of the "Shrinks and Pfizer are just conning you, maaan" guy. It's taken me a couple decades to realize just how stupid and immature that mindset is.
Doctors make mistakes, but overall they're just very smart people whose only function is to help you feel better. It's the worst possible kind of person to feel cynical towards. Hear them out! I try to keep that in mind when weighing their advice against the advice of my idiot friends.
Last edited by Trinsky; March 31, 2010 at 1:43 PM.
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