This is the new games thread

[nathansmart]

Heavy Rain looks pretty pretentious to me. It also may have an uncanny valley problem throughout the entire game (though, I would love to be proved wrong on both counts).

Something that I am looking forward to in a similar vein is Alan Wake.

What's pretentious about it?

[MrDys]

I find it really pretentious to try to cast the game as some sort of movie. Between its poster with fake actor names at the top, to the credit screen at the end of the E3-trailer all typeset like a movie trailer. If anything, it makes me want to play it even less because that is selling it to me as non-stop cutscenes with very little actual interaction.

[Alex Mac]

To me, it looks to be Shenmue's inheritor. If that makes sense. I enjoy Shenmue and play it once a year. If Heavy Rain can measure up to that legacy, I can deal with a little pretension in the face of a well made game.

[Berliner]

I think a game can be serious. Personally, this game, from the title to the description to the scenes, just looks depressing to me. I don't like watching depressing movies either, so maybe its just personal taste. I do wonder how the Timbuktu's of the gaming world (fratboys who only play FPS) will take to it.

I think what MrDrys is saying is that if this game was a movie, it would be considered Oscar bait.

[nathansmart]

they will hate it - there's no action

and MrDys, I've got news for you (at eleven) - most games these days are marketed as "the movie experience in a game" - what makes this any different?

[gweilo845]

To me, it looks to be Shenmue's inheritor. If that makes sense. I enjoy Shenmue and play it once a year. If Heavy Rain can measure up to that legacy, I can deal with a little pretension in the face of a well made game.

It has some similarites to Shenmue, but it seems more linear (ie, in Heavy Rain, you can't kill a whole day of game time playing arcade games) and any action in Heavy Rain is done via quick-time events. Shenmue at least had the Virtua Fighter-lite fighting.

The technology behind Heavy Rain looks interesting, but the game as a whole looks boring as hell to me. I play games to actually play them, not watch a bunch of cut-scenes, no matter how well-done they may be.

And I agree with nathan - I don't really see any way that "casual" gamers are going to take to HR, except for maybe as a curiosity once it hits the bargain bins. You can't expect ADD-addled kids used to getting 25-kill streaks on Call of Duty to go gaga over a game where you do stuff like help your kid with their homework.

[MrDys]

I think what MrDys is saying is that if this game was a movie, it would be considered Oscar bait.

Put better than I could put it myself.

and MrDys, I've got news for you (at eleven) - most games these days are marketed as "the movie experience in a game" - what makes this any different?

I guess the thing that sticks in my craw is that they're stringing a potential audience along. It's one thing for Uncharted to be cinematic and movie-like but it's still being sold as a thing you can play and interact and have fun with. HR on the other hand, wants desperately to be some art-house moral dilemma cut scene thing that is trying to reach a large audience through its tech prowess.

I felt similarly conflicted when the "Mad World" Gears of War trailer came out. It did nothing to explain the story, tone, or gameplay, but it was really effective. If I bought GoW based on the trailer I would have been like "What the fuck is this? Who is this no-neck with a chainsaw gun and why does he keep yelling fuck at me?"

And don't get me wrong, everything about this game says that I should love it and want it to succeed. Old-style adventure games with a strong narrative are my favorite games of all time and I wish they would come back with a goddamn vengeance. But this feels calculated and auteuristic in the most pejorative of ways.

[nathansmart]

And I agree with nathan - I don't really see any way that "casual" gamers are going to take to HR, except for maybe as a curiosity once it hits the bargain bins. You can't expect ADD-addled kids used to getting 25-kill streaks on Call of Duty to go gaga over a game where you do stuff like help your kid with their homework.

Casual? Those kids aren't exactly the definition of "casual."

I guess the thing that sticks in my craw is that they're stringing a potential audience along. It's one thing for Uncharted to be cinematic and movie-like but it's still being sold as a thing you can play and interact and have fun with. HR on the other hand, wants desperately to be some art-house moral dilemma cut scene thing that is trying to reach a large audience through its tech prowess.

I feel like you've been granted assumption +25.

[TimBuktu]

Have I mentioned that I hate Berliner lately?


Also, I played about 4 hours into a second game of ME2, and it's even better the second time. I am kind of stunned by how many little side things I missed because I just followed the objective arrow. There's whole little side stories in rooms off of the main track.

[TomHicks]

I read that in Heavy Rain you will actually be playing from more than one character's perspective, which caused one writer to speculate that some characters can actually die but the game will continue on.

Video gaming as a culture has not become so mainstream that you are actually agitating to form a gamer schism between "jock gamer nerds," who play FPS, and "nerd gamer nerds," who prefer story-based or unconventional games, are you? If this is the future of this thread, I propose that we make people who play music and rhythm games wear stars of David on their clothing for ID purposes.

[Berliner]

I would say that its become fairly mainstream. The gaming industry makes more money than the film industry these days. People who don't play video games generally will understand gaming terms like fragging. And there is kind of a perception by older gamers that game publishing companies are chasing after money, which is what caused Lucas Arts to stop making games like Monkey Island and start shitting out star wars games for the last twenty years, which was part of the mainstreaming process.

[dukerayburn]

Playable characters in Heavy Rain can die, and then that can have lasting consequences in the story. I think that much has been confirmed.

I think viewing it as a Shenmue inheritor, from what I've read in hands-on impressions, is pretty accurate. It folds minigames directly into the world of the game. You cook breakfast, you play catch with your son, you remember (or don't) to take medication. There's a lot of texture to it, which I think makes it Shenmue's heir. We're not going to find out whether or not you can fritter away an entire day doing stuff in the world until the game comes out. I imagine that it will be possible, but I don't think that's the defining characteristic that determines whether the game is like or not like Shenmue.

When I get a PS3, it'll probably be one of the first games I play. As long as it can deliver on all its promise.

In the meantime, I'm also really looking forward to Alan Wake. It looks like the best X-Files game ever.

[Berliner]

It's a nice touch that Mass Effect as a series has a lot of semi obscure references to old school science fiction, like naming a ship the Hugo Gernsback.

[bridgetosolace]

I think what MrDrys is saying is that if this game was a movie, it would be considered Oscar bait.

Perhaps, but I think there's room for that. I mean, can you name two or three other games that are Oscar Bait?

To keep the movie analogy going, the video game industry basically just consists of Transformers 2. Super thin plot, lots of great big explosions. I both welcome and encourage video game designers to push the limits and try something different. Transformers 2 is fine for a certain experience, but there's more room there.

I mean, if Heavy Rain was the 13th title of it's kind coming out this year, I'd understand being jaded. But seriously, lighten up people. Give it a try.

I wish it was coming out for 360

[Berliner]

If "Oscar Bait" means a calculated and self conscious effort at prestige status, then I guess this will be the first of its kind.

But last year was a pretty great year for stretching the limits of what video games can do. Assassin's Creed 2, as just one example, managed to impress critics in the gaming industry as well as the Timbuktus (repressed homosexuals who only play FPS to appear masculine). It was much better than the equivalent of Transformers 2.

Also is Dukerayburn being serious about what you do in that game? You have to cook breakfast, play catch, and remember to take medication using button mashing sequences? I'm pretty open minded, but I'd rather play Lee Carvallo's Putting Challenge.

[bridgetosolace]

But last year was a pretty great year for stretching the limits of what video games can do. Assassin's Creed 2, as just one example, managed to impress critics in the gaming industry as well as the Timbuktus (repressed homosexuals who only play FPS to appear masculine). It was much better than the equivalent of Transformers 2.

Assassin's Creed 2 might be one of the first games I actually complete 100%, just because I haven't gotten tired of the mechanics yet. It's still satisfying to play.

That said, I completely disagree with you. When I was comparing games to Transformers 2 (which I haven't actually seen, granted), I wasn't talking about critical reception, I was talking about our standards for video games. Not how complex we can make games, but rather what we define as a game.

Assassin's Creed 2 is an excellent game, yes, but none of it is carried by the story. The story is, for the most part, just there to introduce different set pieces. Fact is, you could skip 95% of all cut scenes in every video game and still be able play it as intended. You can enjoy the action without knowing the story. To me, Heavy Rain is an attempt to intertwine the two more closely.

And regardless of its success, I think that's an interesting idea to explore.

[Berliner]

I think a lot of people would disagree with you. I thought it was a pretty good story, and Enzio was a pretty empathetic character. I don't know why making players do their character's tax forms makes a story interesting, but I guess we'll see.

[bridgetosolace]

The story was fine for a game. Certainly better the first.

But either you're completely missing the point I was trying to make or I'm less articulate than I think I am. Especially considering that the only way that the story of the game and the action of the game collided is when you overheard people talking while you follow them. Again, I can skip every cut scene (if I could >_>) and I'd still play the game the same way.

Modern games consist largely of two parts: cut scenes and game play. Story and action. Heavy rain is trying to burr the lines between the two, and I think that's a fine goal. Not that there's no room for games the way they are, just that experimentation is neat.

[Me!]

they will hate it - there's no action

and MrDys, I've got news for you (at eleven) - most games these days are marketed as "the movie experience in a game" - what makes this any different?

That's mostly what I hate about modern games.

[ASR]

You've got Half-Life 2, which has no cut-scenes and no real breaks in perspective for the protagonist. Then you've got Metal Gear Solid 4, which is more cut-scenes than game.

Heavy Rain looks like an interesting balance between the two approaches. I'm extremely interested on how this game will end up being received. I'll probably never play it, since I've still never even touched a PS3, but this is the first game since LittleBigPlanet that I'm actually angry I won't be able to play.

I do hate the approach that "videogames should be like movies" that people like Hideo Kojima seem to really be behind. No. They're most definitely not. They're a completely different medium, and they should be treated as such. I think Heavy Rain might understand this.