Terry Porter, age, and no Shawn Marion. Once Again.Originally Posted by jon
And when Gentry took over, Nash's numbers went right back to where they were.
And Shaq's defensive stats aren't fair, when you consider who he goes against in the west compared to who Z goes against in the east.
Shaq played/plays Dwight, Tim Duncan and Yao straight up -- that's enough for me. Shaq's still a superstar regardless of any decline in his numbers.
Last edited by matt in the east; June 25, 2009 at 1:59 PM.
Shaq's behavior in Miami for that title run was an anomaly: he was so driven to win one to spite Jerry Buss for trading him that he would've carried the team's luggage if he thought it would've helped. Once they got the trophy, he went back to his old ways, poisoned the team with his ego to the point that they had to ship him off, once again allowing him to play the victim. Oh, and don't forget he got Stan Van fired before said title run, because the MDE needs a HoF coach, not some chubby scrub with neurotic tendencies. He also helped get D'Antoni fired (since Shaq didn't fit in his system), and he got Del Harris fired in LA. Look out, Mike Brown: you're next. (Riley is salivating, and trying to figure out if he can somehow coach one team while co-owning another. Maybe he can put the Heat in his wife's name?)
FYI, the only rumors and reports you should pay attention to are those of Yahoo's Adrian Wojnarowski. He usually gets it right and/or waits until it's confirmed.
If Shaq makes everyone better, though, shouldn't everyone else's numbers go up despite losing Marion? And Nash's numbers went back up when Gentry took over and they stopped constantly feeding Shaq the ball.
Look, I have no problem if you disagree with what I say, but at least back it up with some kind of actual information. The fact that you say "I don't care what the numbers say, he's still the best player in the whole wide world" shows that you don't really care about actually talking about this stuff.
Halifax is swarming with them.
New Jersey traded Vince Carter and Ryan Anderson to Orlando for Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee and Tony Battie.
Also, in the "who cares" division, Golden State traded Jamal Crawford to Atlanta for Acie Law IV and Speedy Claxton.
You (sarcastically) posed the question of how come Nash didn't win MVP when Shaq came along. I said it's because for the first half of a season he had Terry Porter as a coach. When Alvin Gentry returned, Nash's numbers climbed considerably -- just about reaching his MVP-year numbers. Thus, my conclusion is that Nash is just about the same guy, only the Amare injury, the poor coaching, and the lack of Shawn Marion have made his team less successful. Shaq was one of the few bright spots of that season. With no targets, Nash's job gets considerably more difficult, but with his craftiness and Shaq's efficiency they won a lot more games than they should have.
And then you act like I'm some Shaq fan who's spreading propoganda. I like Shaq, but I'm not blinded his star power when it comes to assessing how he plays basketball. I'd appreciate it if you'd refrain from changing my words like that.
When I watched him this past season, he looked pretty effective even with such reduced minutes. He guards superstar post players 1 on 1, thereby eliminating the need to double team. In basketball, when a team isn't forced to double team a post player, it allows their other defenders to focus more effectively on the 4 other players on the court.
Furthermore, teams often employ the tactic of double teaming Shaq when he has the basketball in his hands. This allows the players around Shaq to have easier shots at the basket.
And since the Cavs can't even slow down Dwight Howard on defense, and since they seem so hell bent on playing slowly and working the half court offense, having Shaq is a huge help. If you agree with my opinion, please share. But don't devalue what I'm saying or act like it's not based on any kind of logic just because I don't have the time to copy and paste from basketball-reference.com.
Maybe I'm just always skeptical of trades, but WTF is that move? I mean, by all means get rid of Alston, but Courtney Lee seemed like a promising young player, and you trade him for a washed-up never-was? I'm sure the logic was that they didn't really have a go-to scorer in crunch time this past year, but wasn't Jameer Nelson that before his injury? This just seems like a bad move chemistry-wise. So much desperation out there -- Cavs grab an old man to counter Howard, so the Mag grab an old man to one-up that... I'm sure someone like Chicago will trade for McGrady next, hoping that makes them relevant.
I don't know if Vince Carter is an 'Old Man'. He it only 32 and he had a pretty good season last year.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/vince_carter/
They had to get rid of Raefer because that guy only likes playing as a starter. I would say losing Courtney Lee kind of stinks but who knows what that guys ceiling is.
Last edited by Americas Team; June 25, 2009 at 4:38 PM.
"Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory."
It also frees up some money for Orlando to try and match any offer Turkoglu gets, or more likely, replace some of his offensive production and have money to retain Gortat.
Then how about this?
Steve Nash Asked for Shaq to be Traded
Nash had grown weary of O'Neal's inability to keep up with the fast-paced play that the Suns had been so successful with in the past and with O'Neal's demand to be a bigger part of the offense.
I didn't know... Sorry Vincent.
Carter's quietly been really solid and healthy the last 4 seasons. I hated this trade at first because I think it's pretty good for Orlando, but they still have no scoring off the bench. And, as a million people have suggested, are there going to be enough shots for everyone, considering that Howard already complained about lack of touches in the finals? I think Orlando would be wise to sign-and-trade Turkoglu since his value's going to be high after a great season, but that wouldn't be popular unless they got something great.
Just heard that Amare is going to GS for Biedrins, Brandon Wright, and the #7. That sounds like the first good move Phoenix has made in years.
I don't agree with that assessment at all. Biedrins and Wright are both underachievers, and Curry is just too small.
Also, Sacramento is run by idiots. Why draft Rubio who will probably be a superstar when you have Benoh Udrih to run your team?
"Even gutter hags trump pretty boys." - BabyCakes
New Wolves GM, same old head scratching decisions. They pick two PG's in a row in the lottery... and INSIST that they are keeping both of them... apparently this is their plan:
"Wolves' vision is to play Flynn/Rubio together like Pistons did Dumars/Isiah or Celts did DJ/Ainge"
Did they just pick Ty Lawson also? They have to trade one or two of them right?
"Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory."
Yeah they are trading Lawson for a future pick. Which might be good considering that this draft is considered shitty. Denver seems like a good fit for Lawson. I am happy for him.
"Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory."
I was really giving Wright credit for being a recent high draft pick. I like Biedrins a lot, though, and he's still very young. Anyway, this trade seems to have disappeared. I'm not entirely sure why the Suns are getting rid of Amare anyway, except for the health problems that surely are driving his trade value way down. Is everything about money with that team? It sounds like they're keeping Nash. I guess they'll suck for a few years and then he can retire and they'll make him GM, since that's what they do when you're a good white player in this league.
Also, is Minnesota (RIP, Kevin McHale) only allowed to have point guards and power forwards? Why the fuck did they need Songaila in back in that trade? That hurt the Wizards much more than it helps the Wolves. Also, Ricky Rubio has a funny teenage voice. As a Wizards fan, I have to root for him to be a disappointment, but as a fan of funny accents I'd like to see him stick around for a while.
---
edit: Regarding the Kings, yes they're a shitty organization, yes it was stupid to pass on Rubio's potential, but I get the impression that Rubio's agent was very clear that his client would only sign with certain teams. At least, he said he would sign with Memphis or Washington. With Washington, the (Dan Fegan, who I think used to be in Steely Dan, too) said it was because Rubio wouldn't get minutes playing behind Arenas, but it's worth noting that Arenas fired Fegan before he signed his max contract last year. Also, there has to be SOME reason why Rubio went 5th. It could be stupidity, or it could be that there are serious questions about whether Rubio can ever be athletic enough to play in the NBA.
Last edited by funnyclown; June 25, 2009 at 9:38 PM.
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